The Sound Of Phish
"Divided Sky" 3.6.09 (J. DiGiuseppe)
Hampton wasn’t just a new chapter for the band and the audience, it also represented a transition in front of house sound engineers for the first time since 1986. Paul Languedoc had held down the soundboard at Phish shows for nearly two decades, and had become an institution in the Phish scene. Like all institutions, legends were built around him- not just his mixing- but his individually hand-made guitars. While many guitar players switch axes many times throughout a show, you’ll never see Trey ditch his trusty Languedoc- it’s the sound dreams are made of. Versatile and beautiful, Trey’s guitar tone, while encompassing many variables, all starts with the Languedoc. Mike also used a Languedoc-crafted bass until 1997, when he switched over to his Modulus, boasting a fuller sound for the band’s groove-heavy era.
3.6.09 (W.Rogell)
But as an everyday member of the band, Languedoc was the sound guy. As Paul has retired from the road, Hampton was our first taste of Phish without his oft revered mix. And to be honest, I think it was better. Back in the day, friends and I wondered why Languedoc was so consistently praised for his live mix; in short, we didn’t believe the hype. If there was one thing Paul made sure of- you could always hear Trey at the top of the mix. (And this is coming from a Trey lover to the end.) While Mike and Page offered just as much musically, they were always turned noticeably down, and it often became humorous.
In fact, it wasn’t just us that noticed this; fans began to take notice on large scale. In early 1997 a “social protest movement” grew within the Phish community- PLM or “People For a Louder Mike.” It took an organized cadre of tapers and hippies with a catchy slogan for Languedoc to amend a clear shortcoming! Finally, Gordeaux got brought to an acceptable place of prominence in the live mix. Coinciding with his switch to the Modulus, all of a sudden Mike was dropping bombs that enveloped the room- and it was the best.
"Sanity" 3.8.09 (J.DiGiuseppe)
Then you had Page. It has become a virtual consensus among fans that he was at the top of his game in Hampton, leading jams and creating engaging melodic themes all weekend long. And I completely agree with this. While Trey was self-admittedly a bit tentative over the weekend, The Chairman stepped up throughout the shows, earning MVP for the comeback run on many a message board thread.
While there is no doubt that he was shredding, I now pose the question, “Was part of Page’s prominence in Hampton partially because we, literally, heard him better?” Taking nothing away from his playing, I sincerely believe this factored into why he stood out so much. Our ears had been trained- for years- by listening to a relatively unbalanced, guitar-heavy, live mix; one in which Page was most easily lost. Hence, with a more balanced mix, Page would naturally stand out.
3.6.09 (W.Rogell)
In addition, Languedoc’s mixes weren’t the most dynamic- meaning he wasn’t always responding to what was going on stage. If someone steps up to lead a jam, they should be pushed up ever so slightly in the mix, in order to complement the natural contour of the music. While potentially inaudible in one instance, over an entire show of “dynamic” mixing, the music will “pop” much more. To be fair, Languedoc had a very good mix, but he definitely had his taste of how it should sound. Once he achieved that sound, he became somewhat of a creature of habit with the knobs. I know this may sound blasphemous to some fans out there, but it is certainly not meant in any inflammatory way. Paul did a great job for a long time, but had a propensity to settle in with the room sounding a certain way. Ultimately, Languedoc’s true passion seems to lie in his custom guitars, where he has chosen to focus his work from here on out.
3.6.09 (W.Rogell)
I have no idea who did the live mix for Hampton, but I do know that it sounded amazing and far more balanced. Yes, they was the first shows back, it had been a while- but after seeing hundreds of shows, it was something that jumped out each night. And the best illustration of this new-found balance was how crystal clear Page sounded all weekend long. In a band of such uniquely talented musicians, all should be treated equal, with necessary adjustments made on the fly. At Hampton, this four-part equilibrium was closely approached- maybe moreso than ever. Call me crazy, but I it noticed on all three nights.
This is in no way meant to bash Languedoc- he always had it sounding spot-on in all types of rooms for nearly twenty years- but his affinity for big guitar often compromised Page’s contributions. I’m not even sure if the person who mixed Hampton is a permanent hire – but it’s fascinating how someone stepped in for their first time ever and had the mix sounding so vibrant. It’s interesting what a fresh pair of ears with no preconceptions can do.
Do you Agree? Disagree? I’d love to hear your opinions in Comments!
“The Return” – 3.6.09 – Photo: Wendy Rogell
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DOWNLOAD OF THE DAY:
8.5.96 Red Rocks < LINK
8.5.96 Red Rocks < TORRENT LINK
8.5.96 @ Red Rocks (J.Richter)
Continuing on our tour through Red Rocks history, today we have the second night from Phish’s four-night stand in 1996. Look out for monster bookends of set two in “2001 > Disease” and a heavy “Mike’s Groove.”
I: Wilson, Poor Heart, Guelah Papyrus, The Divided Sky, Wolfman’s Brother, Foam, If I Could, Julius, The Squirming Coil
II: Also Sprach Zarathustra > Down With Disease, It’s Ice, Halley’s Comet > Somewhere Over the Rainbow**, Waste^, Talk^#, Train Song^, Strange Design^, Amazing Grace, Mike’s Song > I Am Hydrogen > Weekapaug Groove
E: Cavern
**Page, solo on Theremin. ^Page on a smaller piano, Trey on acoustic guitar, Mike on acoustic bass, and Fishman on a smaller drum set (the “acoustic mini-stage”). #First time played.
Source: FOB > DFC/9th row > Sonic Studios Dsm6’/Pa6lc3s (w/60khz bass rolloff) > D7 @48k > Clone
Taper: J.P.
Tags: 2009, Comeback, Hampton
@Guyforget
Didn’t try for Hampton but I got full order early tour and partial this time. No email yet but my card was charged for what looks like 3 east coast shows.
thanks hugh, testing the theory that maybe shutouts from first two lottos got top priority this time..i was shut out first two, but looks like i got 3 shows this time.
^ Its random….it always is.
miner, you get any action on your credit card yet?
^ nope. never.
i got you in mind if i have any extras, especially for shoreline or gorge.
thanks man
Mugician, I haven’t listened to the audience recordings yet. I’m speaking completely from being at the shows on Saturday and Sunday and listening to the free MP3s on Sennheiser HD280s and in an old Nissan.
Seriously the most interesting perspective is now such … how is the band different with Paul not on sound to the gentleman we just heard at hampton … I will save my opinion untill I hear more at outside venues in the summer time, which I think is wise … I can’t really make an opinion on only hearing three shows at an indoor venue that is we all know is one of the band’s favorite places to play … You could devote a whole website to is Questtion … sure Mike and Page have long been slighted to some degree … but listen to old ‘Who’ concerts and you might not hear John on bass so clearly, but if you play one of any numerous studio albums its a whole different story… bottomline Paul just like Chris has grown with the band from is very start, thus gives him a unique perspective … every sound guy hears and thus mixes four different players in a very different way … so as I will miss Paul I may hear something different in the Summertime that reminds me of why he was dam good, which will help us all appreciate him … and who’s to say somebody may even do it better than Chris, probably not but we can’t truly answer that question
Whos got my extra Fri-Sat RR? OMG this is killing me. I have a request in for Toyota Park, and I’m like how do I get shutout for that. Who wants to go there? and its like a 25,000 persons stadium, minimum. Then I remember, oh yeah I got Shutout for Alpine. 40,000+ but no room for a lowly fan like myself. I know phish lotto doesnt have all the tix, but not everybody does the preorder. CMON, baby CMON.
I agree w/ a lot of what you had to say about the sound at Hampton. Page was def more in your face in the mix. In the past he was lost in the mix quite a bit. One thing I would like to comment on is Fish’s mix and Mike.
Fish’s mix was not very good to me(I’m a drummer and tend to listen closely to the drum mix) His snare was not cutting through like in the past as well as his kick drum. And over all he wasn’t very loud.
Mike’s bass didn’t have the punch I’m used to. I don’t know what the deal was w/ Mike but unless you were in the back of the floor you really didn’t have that chest vibration.(You always get more bass in the back of the floor because the bass sound waves take more space to fully develope) All in all I thought it was a good mix but wouldn’t put this new guy above Paul quite yet.
I think there is something short and simple to be said about Phish’s new sound:
It lacks the intensity that I love about Phish. It felt, even when I was there at Hampton, that the band was being held back. they weren’t completely letting loose. Of course it was there first set of shows, I’ll give them that. But come on Phish, I want MORE this summer. AMP IT UP! intensity! ENERGY!
Say all you want, I agree they sound SOOOO much better than when they left off in 04, but lets get back to the ENERGY and INTENSITY that we all felt in 94! I’m not saying at all that they need to recreate that sound. I know that thats the opposite of what they want, and its not what i was hoping for either. but I want to feel that RUSH that was there then. GIVE IT TO ME!
Unfortunately, being deployed in Iraq, I wasn’t able to make it to Hampton. I was very glad to see this thread, because knowing that Paul had moved on, and seeing from Pics that the band was utilizing a different (and visibly more demure PA system), I was naturally concerned about the sound quality.
I have a hard time believing that it could have sounded better than even solid Phish 2.0 when Paul and the band were locked in. Now, Paul was not always on point. For Example, 12-31-02 and the Hamptons that followed sounded wretched, particularly MSG, a room Paul usually nailed. Was that Paul or the band? Or maybe both? Probably both. But by mid 03′, Paul was back to form. While the NYE run in Miami wasn’t the sickest as far as the band went, I remember sitting near the top of the Arena in the back, at one point, and marveling how it was like listening to the band from high quality headphones…..everyone smooth and clear in the mix….even Page:)
MSBJIVEIN said that Fish wasn’t heard well in the mix…..he isn’t on the downloads either, IMO. This is disheartening, as Paul mixed drums better than anyone….you could hear everything Fish was doing so clearly.
I’ve heard from others that they didn’t think the sound was totally dialed in. Now, I’m no PA expert, but there are substantially fewer speaker boxes in the new PA set-up. From a physics standpoint, more is better. The system resembles generic ones I’ve seen used by a myriad of other bands, but Phish has never been generic….they always went the extra mile.
From what I understand, in the day Phish owned their own sound stuff, now they are outsourcing more….this isn’t all bad, but if the sound is suffering, hopefully the band is being made aware of it, as they will surely demand changes.
I came late to this thread, but I would love to hear more from interested heads…my email is mpj1972@yahoo.com
I probably won’t get to hit any shows until fall or NYE, but I will monitor the band’s progress from afar.
Matt
Oh, about Page. These are my thoughts on the band:
Trey- is one of the greatest rock guitarists of all time (my favorite)
Mike- is one of the greatest rock bassists of all time (my favorite)
Fish- is one of the greatest drummers in any genre period (tied with Bonham in my book, probably)
Page- This man is on a different level. It isn’t just his talent on the boards, that isn’t really what separates him from other keyboard players. Hell, Wakeman and others maybe have more classical chops…whatever. It’s what he is allowed to achieve in the context of the band’s sound, their music. I’m not comparing him to bands or artists that were piano-centric, if you will (Elton John, Bruce Hornsby, Billy Joel)…they didn’t really rock. I’m talking about rock bands with keyboards…so compare him to Yes (all the art-rock bands), Allmans, Dead, Panic….whoever…..Page brings so much flavor. He is the first player to really (Phish is the first band) to fully engage the keyboards as far as they could go)……It is metaphysically impossible for Page to be better!!
In other words, you can argue abour Trey, Mike, or Fish being the best in the business in their craft, but Page is like the Michael Jordan of keys….there is no argument.
Phish is just getting started. They are just getting their juices loosened. This is only the begining of the begining of a new era. They have reclaimed their thrown, shown their authority, and will invariably tear America to shreds with their style of improvisational, authentic grass roots Jamaican reggae.
Joyboy- “Phish is the first band to fully engage the keyboards as far as they could go.”
What????
You ever hear of Return to Forever. Chick Corea is freaking insane!!!! Not to mention Al Di Meola would destroy Trey and Stanley Clarke makes Mike’s slapping look like childs play.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to bash Phish in any way, but if i am going to be honest with myself i have to realize that those are musicians that are taking the technical aspect of playing to new levels. Phish as a unit is amazing but each of them seperately are not breaking any new boundries on their instruments (in my opinion)