Where’s the Bass?
The Fox 6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
Everyone knows that I like to keep things positive on Phish Thoughts, but there is one disappointing aspect to this summer’s Phish that needs to be addressed- the soundboards. What has caused the degradation of LivePhish releases, making many virtually unlistenable? Many fans have chimed in on this topic since spending upwards of $10 for each show they purchased, only to be greeted by a recording- well, that often sounds like a trio! The result of these inadequate releases is that anyone relying on them to listen to the shows is actually missing most their musical dynamic. Let’s look a little closer.
6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
The main gripe from fans across the country has been the relative absence of bass in the LivePhish mix. While varying from show to show, Mike has often been so low in the mix that his eclectic- and essential- offerings can barely be heard. Because Trey and Mike play so closely off each other, enhancing each other’s lines, this causes Trey’s playing to make much less sense in the context of a “three piece band.” It wasn’t until I listened to various audience tapes, matrix mixes, and “remastered” soundboards, that I realized how much the boards were lacking. A lot of these jams were much better than reflected by the band’s own releases!
6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
When listening to these different sources, one can hear the furious interplay between Mike and Trey, as their musical ideas constantly bounce off and wrap around each other. This is my favorite aspect of Phish- when Mike and Trey play like they are glued at the brain- responding to each other’s subtleties coherently and masterfully. Yet if one were to solely listen to Live Phish releases, they would miss this entire dynamic- completely diluting the music and prompting theories of whether Mike is now the one on drugs. Truth be told- the band sounds great; the soundboards sound like shit. But why?
When we think back to post-hiatus, when Phish still had the same crew (Languedoc et al) running the ship, the LivePhish releases sounded infinitely better. Without knowing the exact process used to get these releases to the web, we can all tell there is a severe learning curve. Phish now does an amazing job at getting their shows online within an hour of the final note- but at what cost? Would it not be better if they took another few hours, or- gasp- a day to make sure that they are releasing a professional product worthy of listening for an audiophile? As Speed Stick once advertised, “Anything else would be uncivilized!” Especially in today’s uber-technologicalal age.
6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
Suffice it to say, these soundboard releases have not reflected the dynamic playing of the band in any room or pavilion. Without any seeming adjustments or remixing, we are getting flat soundboard mixes that comes off as amateur for a band of Phish’s stature. I don’t know if there was a different process back in ’03, or simply a more knowledgeable employee running the show, but the difference in quality is palpable. Some fans have been so disenchanted that they have written petitions to the band asking for refunds on their purchases. Their point has weight, as the official band that releases that are sold, are some of the lesser quality versions of the shows that are available for free all over the web.
6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
In addition to a relative absence of Mike- something fans have brought up in the actual live mix as well- Trey and Page are often so loud that they are all you can hear. I love Trey- and Page is playing as well as ever- but to hear the two without the backing of a thick rhythmic pocket is only half the picture. Imagine if Michaelangelo had only painted half of the Sistine Chapel? It wouldn’t quite have the same effect. With a hypercritical fan base that has always looked to analyze the band’s every move, it is doing a disservice to the organization and to the fans, to continue releasing inferior mixes.
But one silver-lining in all of this is that people are listening to audience recordings again; genuine replications of how you experienced the show. And a great audience recording will smoke a soundboard any day of the week. With a fuller feel, more crowd ambiance and an authentic sound, audience tapes have come back with a vengeance this summer. With the help of No Spoilers and the copious sources of every single show posted on etree , people have more than enough choices to sift through before deciding on what sounds best.
6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
While this was only the first tour back, and things will inevitably get dialed in, it would behoove the organization to reconcile this issue with this coming August run. Without being a sound engineer myself, I can’t make any definitive suggestions, but couldn’t someone create a separate live mix for the tapes each night, or would that be too difficult? Honestly, I don’t know. But with crazy fans that are willing to go to a show, drive directly home and buy it online, the product Phish offers should be the one of the best available options.
The music is great and only getting better- now let us hear it!
What do you think about the recent soundboard releases? Do you have any insight as to why there has been such a downgrade in quality? Share your thoughts in Comments!
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NEW “DOWNLOAD OF THE DAY” RSS SUBSCRIPTION!
Why wait and see what show is up for download each day on Phish Thoughts, when you can have it waiting for you to bump during your morning coffee, drop onto your iPod, and head out the door?! Following the popular No Spoilers RSS feed, we will now be starting a “Download of the Day” RSS subscription as well.
The idea is that you use your torrent program to subscribe to “Downloads of the Day.” Soon after I upload the show, your program starts downloading it automagically!
DOWNLOAD OF THE DAY:
6.5.2009 Jones Beach, Wantagh, NY < TORRENT
6.5.2009 Jones Beach, Wantagh, NY < MEGAUPLOAD
Official Jones Beach Poster
Saving their best effort for the conclusion of the Jones Beach run, Phish blew out this second set in a rainstorm, crafting the finest frame of the tour to that point. A sublime “2001 > Slave” capped off the night.
I: Wilson, Buried Alive, Kill Devil Falls, AC/DC Bag, I Didn’t Know, My Friend My Friend, Ya Mar, Theme from the Bottom, Boogie On Reggae Woman, Split Open and Melt
II: Down With Disease > Twist* > Piper > Backwards Down the Number Line, Free, Twenty Years Later > 2001 > Slave to the Traffic Light
E: A Day in the Life
* w/ “Oye Como Va” jam
Source: Telefunken m260
Tags: 2009, Culture
@Col,
that sucks, but at least you know that when you finally see them live it will sound great!!
Just wanted to add myself to the list of Dissapointed. I bought the Roo shows and they sound like the mics are in a different room. I tried to play Glory Days for my girl in the car, and I had to turn the bass knob up to 5 and the treble up to 2. Even she noticed how bad they sounded. (We are not “audio nerds” either.)
Hampton SBDs: I assumed they spent more time mixing these as they inteded to give them out for free to demonstrate how successful the reunion went (and to share some love with all of us who couldn’t attend). I don’t recall the turn around time: wasn’t it a few days, or?
I thought the live sound during the shows this tour was excellent, especially at the roo. However, at times it seemed the vocals on the new songs weren’t loud and/or distinct enough. Trey seems to be singing differently for some of the new songs, specfically by staying further away from the mic.
Electric Ladyland just has a perfect mix of songs…
-Lots of psychedelic nuggets that would serve as a playground for Phish ambient….including the opending track, “And the Gods Made Love”
-Pop nuggets…Crosstown Traffic….Little Miss Strange
-Amazing blues nuggets…
-Sick Dylan cover…sickest ever Dylan cover, actually
They really have to do it….nobody can name a better album for them because there isn’t one….not to mention, they can pull off the vocals..
Oh…1983, A Mermaid I Should Turn To Be!!
Sickness
@ coloneljoy
i agree. electric ladyland is definitely doable. and it wound be pretty sweet. would love to hear page’s interpretation on it.
@Frock,
I think it is the only album without weakness, as far as Phish covering it is concerned. Band of Gypsies wouldn’t be bad, either, but not as strong as Electric Ladyland, not as well rounded…
Long Hot Summer Night! Gypsy Eyes! Love that record! Good call ColJoy!
Just bought War Heroes in vinyl and i thought Phish would do a great Highway Chile! Love that song!
“You may call him a… tramp, but i know it goes a little deeper than that… he’s a… (guitar riff) …highway chile!”
The Thriller idea seems so absurd to me.
Maybe the 30th they do HYHU>The Girl Is Mine>HYHU
If you want horns for Halloween they should cover a War album…
I’ve been to 5 out this years 18 shows — there’s no problem with the sound at the shows, so don’t worry ’bout that. Only problem is the SBD masters.
For years my live sources were multiple-generation analog cassette copies – but I loved them (even the bad ones). I remember being disappointed with how “not-live” Hampton Comes Alive sounded (Phish’s first official foray into full-show releases). I missed the audience and also missed that “boominess” that is inherent in an indoor, arena show (which I actually like).
as someone who pre ordered the sbds of the whole tour, i am extremely disappointed in the sound quality. i would like a refund or a rerelease of something worthy for free.
i have heard aud recordings of bonnaroo, asheville, knoxville, and deercreek that literally destroy the official releases. you can actually hear bass and kick drum.
epic fail livephish….epic fail.
Electric Ladyland would be pure bliss for my brain. Doesn’t matter if Hendrix is a predictable choice -it would still melt faces. I briefly thought Thriller would be cool, but now agree with others that they should cover just one song instead.
Note: forgot to input my regular screen name earlier. Eric Masters = sumodie = me
Mike’s sound was definitely fucked up this tour. of the shows i saw, ashe>knoxx>b’roo, 2nd night of b’roo sounded the best.
but here is the thing, this summer phish played coliseums and amphitheaters, a baseball stadium, an ornate 5k seat theater, a 7k seat old piece of shit and then a 20k+ room the very next night, and then 2 nights back outside playing to 50k+ on a crazy big stage.
that shit is ridiculous!
seriously.
all i know is that the band is aware of the problem and is taking steps to get it right.
the pitt>DC>alpine run was, IMO, the best mixed run of the tour and the band responded in kind. or maybe we just heard it legitimately for the first time of the tour.
^and Miner, the reason phish uploads their shows without taking the time to remaster them is because they are competing with your feed. Management wants to have the first product on the market.
management assumes most phans want to hear the last show played ASAP.
why else would you pay to download a show from livephish at 12:30 when you can download it free from no spoilers at 12:45?
unfortunately, they are sacrificing quality for speed to market instead of focusing on having the best product on the market.
think about it.
when the $BDs sound worse than then AUDS and the AUDS are free, im gonna be taking option number 2 every time.
capshaw needs to slow his roll a little bit.
TQM’d
Did Mike really wore a pink t-shirt at the Fox show? That is bold! I thought i had seen everything with the fluo outfit at Clifford Ball but that is crazy!
Last year i went to see a Toots & The Maytals show in Burlingon and spent the day hanging out in Burlington and saw Mike shopping clothes of all colors at American Apparel. I thought that was pretty funny when i saw pictures of him later that summer rocking purple pants and turquoise t-shirts…
at least i have made up a fun game for when i listen to my $300 collection of worthless summer 09 livephish. the game is called make up mike’s basslines in my head. since i can’t hear but a thin shadow of bass on the sbd, i just make up and hum a bassline in my head. it’s all in my mind. kick drum too. takes the sting out of preordering worthless inferior soundboards.
i like Miner’s prediction of “Graceland” but how about Huey Lewis and the News’ “Sports”
1. “The Heart of Rock & Roll” – 5:03
2. “Heart and Soul” – 4:13
3. “Bad Is Bad” – 3:48
4. “I Want a New Drug” – 4:46
5. “Walking on a Thin Line” – 5:11
6. “Finally Found a Home” – 3:43
7. “If This Is It” – 3:54
8. “You Crack Me Up” – 3:42
9. “Honky Tonk Blues” – 3:26
don’t forget the encore: it’s hip 2 b square > gotta get back in tyme.
@cason
I understand the concept but there is no way that Phish is rushing their SBD’s up to compete with Miner’s No Spoilers. I love this site (Thank you Mr Miner!) but there is no way that readership here makes a dent in comparison with traffic to phish.com. I could buy it a little more if you referenced bt.etree.org than No Spoilers. Shows generally get upped pretty fast there too, especially the highly anticipated new Phish shows. I think the band knows that the market is somewhat different for the paid for SBD’s and the free AUD’s. There are some out there who would never pay for an immaculate sounding SBD when there is a free AUD available.
But I totally agree about the disparity in size of venues from this tour. That has to be hell on the sound people at the show as well as the people preparing the downloads.
@cason
although maybe I’m wrong…wouldn’t be the first time
The second worst thing to proliferate needlessly because of the internet (after porn) is criticism.
I’ll write this one more tiime – back in the day I used to be happy with even a shitty-sounding, third-generation analog cassette, with low levels, hiss, etc.
Today’s AUD recordings are fantastic! In all honesty, I’m glad that Phish’s SBDs suck because its forcing people to return to the ORIGINAL source.
maybe releasing beyond sub par sbd product is actually a cleverly disguised marketing ploy? aimed at people who love perfect sound. perhaps by knowing the only way to hear how the band actually is to go see them live? perhaps the goal is to get people to the shows by not offering a ‘clear picture’ of the venue sound. ??
@ whole tour – I know this almost goes without saying but it doesn’t seem like Phish needs to coerce people into attending their shows.
i’m dumbfounded and perplexed as to why the sbd mix is sooo bad. there are even moments where the volume drops dramatically and phasing issues. i could make a better recording with a fischer price ‘my first boombox’ baby toy.
this is a major bummer in an otherwise PERFECT summer.
love the shows….hate the sbd mix.
Were the soundboards available that fast back in 2004? I remember hearing the Brooklyn Moma Dance on a From The Archives show and thinking wow, that’s what Mike should sound like! Maybe that one was recorded differently since it was shown in theaters and released…
Anyway, that’s what Mike should sound like!