Where’s the Bass?
The Fox 6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
Everyone knows that I like to keep things positive on Phish Thoughts, but there is one disappointing aspect to this summer’s Phish that needs to be addressed- the soundboards. What has caused the degradation of LivePhish releases, making many virtually unlistenable? Many fans have chimed in on this topic since spending upwards of $10 for each show they purchased, only to be greeted by a recording- well, that often sounds like a trio! The result of these inadequate releases is that anyone relying on them to listen to the shows is actually missing most their musical dynamic. Let’s look a little closer.
6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
The main gripe from fans across the country has been the relative absence of bass in the LivePhish mix. While varying from show to show, Mike has often been so low in the mix that his eclectic- and essential- offerings can barely be heard. Because Trey and Mike play so closely off each other, enhancing each other’s lines, this causes Trey’s playing to make much less sense in the context of a “three piece band.” It wasn’t until I listened to various audience tapes, matrix mixes, and “remastered” soundboards, that I realized how much the boards were lacking. A lot of these jams were much better than reflected by the band’s own releases!
6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
When listening to these different sources, one can hear the furious interplay between Mike and Trey, as their musical ideas constantly bounce off and wrap around each other. This is my favorite aspect of Phish- when Mike and Trey play like they are glued at the brain- responding to each other’s subtleties coherently and masterfully. Yet if one were to solely listen to Live Phish releases, they would miss this entire dynamic- completely diluting the music and prompting theories of whether Mike is now the one on drugs. Truth be told- the band sounds great; the soundboards sound like shit. But why?
When we think back to post-hiatus, when Phish still had the same crew (Languedoc et al) running the ship, the LivePhish releases sounded infinitely better. Without knowing the exact process used to get these releases to the web, we can all tell there is a severe learning curve. Phish now does an amazing job at getting their shows online within an hour of the final note- but at what cost? Would it not be better if they took another few hours, or- gasp- a day to make sure that they are releasing a professional product worthy of listening for an audiophile? As Speed Stick once advertised, “Anything else would be uncivilized!” Especially in today’s uber-technologicalal age.
6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
Suffice it to say, these soundboard releases have not reflected the dynamic playing of the band in any room or pavilion. Without any seeming adjustments or remixing, we are getting flat soundboard mixes that comes off as amateur for a band of Phish’s stature. I don’t know if there was a different process back in ’03, or simply a more knowledgeable employee running the show, but the difference in quality is palpable. Some fans have been so disenchanted that they have written petitions to the band asking for refunds on their purchases. Their point has weight, as the official band that releases that are sold, are some of the lesser quality versions of the shows that are available for free all over the web.
6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
In addition to a relative absence of Mike- something fans have brought up in the actual live mix as well- Trey and Page are often so loud that they are all you can hear. I love Trey- and Page is playing as well as ever- but to hear the two without the backing of a thick rhythmic pocket is only half the picture. Imagine if Michaelangelo had only painted half of the Sistine Chapel? It wouldn’t quite have the same effect. With a hypercritical fan base that has always looked to analyze the band’s every move, it is doing a disservice to the organization and to the fans, to continue releasing inferior mixes.
But one silver-lining in all of this is that people are listening to audience recordings again; genuine replications of how you experienced the show. And a great audience recording will smoke a soundboard any day of the week. With a fuller feel, more crowd ambiance and an authentic sound, audience tapes have come back with a vengeance this summer. With the help of No Spoilers and the copious sources of every single show posted on etree , people have more than enough choices to sift through before deciding on what sounds best.
6.16.09 (B.Kisida)
While this was only the first tour back, and things will inevitably get dialed in, it would behoove the organization to reconcile this issue with this coming August run. Without being a sound engineer myself, I can’t make any definitive suggestions, but couldn’t someone create a separate live mix for the tapes each night, or would that be too difficult? Honestly, I don’t know. But with crazy fans that are willing to go to a show, drive directly home and buy it online, the product Phish offers should be the one of the best available options.
The music is great and only getting better- now let us hear it!
What do you think about the recent soundboard releases? Do you have any insight as to why there has been such a downgrade in quality? Share your thoughts in Comments!
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NEW “DOWNLOAD OF THE DAY” RSS SUBSCRIPTION!
Why wait and see what show is up for download each day on Phish Thoughts, when you can have it waiting for you to bump during your morning coffee, drop onto your iPod, and head out the door?! Following the popular No Spoilers RSS feed, we will now be starting a “Download of the Day” RSS subscription as well.
The idea is that you use your torrent program to subscribe to “Downloads of the Day.” Soon after I upload the show, your program starts downloading it automagically!
DOWNLOAD OF THE DAY:
6.5.2009 Jones Beach, Wantagh, NY < TORRENT
6.5.2009 Jones Beach, Wantagh, NY < MEGAUPLOAD
Official Jones Beach Poster
Saving their best effort for the conclusion of the Jones Beach run, Phish blew out this second set in a rainstorm, crafting the finest frame of the tour to that point. A sublime “2001 > Slave” capped off the night.
I: Wilson, Buried Alive, Kill Devil Falls, AC/DC Bag, I Didn’t Know, My Friend My Friend, Ya Mar, Theme from the Bottom, Boogie On Reggae Woman, Split Open and Melt
II: Down With Disease > Twist* > Piper > Backwards Down the Number Line, Free, Twenty Years Later > 2001 > Slave to the Traffic Light
E: A Day in the Life
* w/ “Oye Como Va” jam
Source: Telefunken m260
Tags: 2009, Culture
Denver > Austin overnight = no chance
Denver to Austin is 18 hours….so there is a chance….it will be exhausting though.
Yes, I think, as I said, the middle gets silly…
I’m crying, I mean crying for a Key Arena Seattle show. Common, where’s the love for the Northwest. Portland, Vancouver, anything. Just one show, please!!!!
Not to say I defend these mr miner but last time they played one deer creek show was back then too.
@colonel from a while back, electric ladyland is a great album and all but it would also be sooooo hard to learn, seeing as it’s long and extremely complicated especially guitar-wise, i’m not saying phish can’t do it, just saying that this would be a horrible year for them to do seeing as after their first run of shows they clearly have a TON of work to do to get to where we all want them to be and they should be focusing on that rather than learning an album they’ll play once
i sure hope those rumors are wrong. i want a walnut creek show in raleigh.
“Denver to Austin is 18 hours….so there is a chance….it will be exhausting though.”
^ that equals NO CHANCE
@DancingFoo,
I would say Electric Ladyland isn’t that difficult to learn, at least not for Phish. The structure of most tunes is really quite simple compared to most of the shit this band plays, and Trey can improvise over what Jimi intended…won’t copy note for note, obviously. Other than Loaded, it might be the easiest album for the whole band to cover, though that can be debated, but definately easier than Quadro, and in volume and scope easier than the White Album, and for reaching out of their current comfort zone, easier than Remain In Light…What I’m saying is that the music should come naturally to them…
They have time to work on everything between now and Ween…
“i want a walnut creek show in raleigh.”
^^ gonna have to wait until next summer! Phish won’t be playing outdoors in November
On soundboard quality. The only soundboard flac I purchased this tour was the Deer Creek show. While I agree it’s a little flat, it’s not terrible. I can hear Mike’s bass lines, they just don’t jump out as much as they used to. I do think it will get better in the second half of the summer tour. The band and sound people do listen to feedback. I’m going to give a 2003 download a listen that I have for better comparison, and will write more. We can’t expect the Livephish to sound like the remasters though. I agree with Mr. Miner that the audience copies of shows are better than ever. I have audience copies of Camden, Jones 2, Bonnaroo 2, and Burgettstown. The Camden one is real nice.
On another note, I downloaded uTorrent for Mac OSX and can’t get it to work. I’ve got the icon, and the program, but it won’t open. I’m a bit challenged with the online music, so any help would be appreciated. It took me several tries to convert my Livephish Flac to .WAV files, so it’s not a surprise I’m a bit stumped here.
’95 was the last Deer Creek one night stand
The SBDs are actually for the first time a true representation of what the new soundman is achieving from the live PA stacks.
Mike’s low end is virtually missing – in the SBD and while at the concert.
Fish’s kick is non existant – in the SBD and while at the concert.
Trey’s tone is too prevelant.
Honestly, Page is the only one with a solid mix.
At Jones Beach row 14 on the side, it was pretty loud so that’s good, but no low end! This guy needs a quick tutoring on bass from the WSP soundman who runs a tight ass sound system.
I’ve said it since Hampton, we need the revolution to start now. The rebirth of People for a Louder Mike (and Fish’s kick)!!!
Didn’t they do 1 Hampton in 04′?
Thanks Miner for putting it out there. I think the soundboard copies are doing an injustice of the “FULL MEGAJUICE” Sound. I don’t know if it’s Red Light or DMB employees…So thanks again to all the “no spoilers”. For Robear..Download UNRax it’s free and you are set. see ya at Red Rocks
Ah, Phil’s telling me no low end…I wonder what the truth is…
@colonel, i think band of gypsies would make a lot more sense than electric ladyland
i heard the bass loud and clear in ashe/knox-vegas.
For those of you who downloaded yesterday’s Camden Remaster, the ‘Sugar Shack’ mp3 is public now, so the whole second set and encore is available for download.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=7a533d47d5616e845bf1f12f1ff3f30a165f4a9c3d9efe425be6ba49b5870170
@Dancing,
Well, to say the least, your sense is not exactly a bad trip!
The Bass sucked at MSG>Hampton during the first post hiatus shows, too….that was doc, or the band, or both
@Exree
Still shows up as private for me. I guess I’ll try later. Love the remaster!
Miner- listening to the AUD’s of Camden- Sugar Shack is a completely different song then the sbd’s.
The vocals, the bass, the drums- everything is mixed completely different. It’s actually a cool song- the only part the AUD’s don’t fix is Trey completely butchering the guitar part (never having heard the actually guitar part, its still easy to note that what Trey played was not it…). But it is truly amazing how piss poor the “official” release of this song sounds in comparison… Night and day. Great topic- I never would have thought the difference was that big…
Solid amount of posting today considering that it’s a holiday.
What’s the consensus of when Save the Date tix will go on sale?
Happy safe and festive 4th everyone. Just cracked a Bud Heavy after playing some softball. Doesn’t get more American than that.
On the 2000 soundboards i heard, Mike’s bass cuts thru loud and clear. Listen to the From The Archives versions of 6.28 Gin or 5.22 Ghost to see what i mean… You hear the right hand attack so much clearer than now…
I read on the livephish.com comments that it was because they were using a different soundboard than before, digital and not analog… anybody knows?