L O S T: “Ab Aeterno” Discussion Thread

The Final Season

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83 Responses to “L O S T: “Ab Aeterno” Discussion Thread”

  1. jay Says:

    definitely. Be the cork!!!

  2. Type III Jamming Personality Disorder Says:

    sayid sayid he had the knife
    richard sprung on jacob in a former life

  3. Mr.Miner Says:

    yup, its gonna wind up as Jack as the new Jacob with the job of keeping ManInLocke in the island….the show will end where it began…

    jack v. Locke for eternity

  4. (Formally Known As) BrandonKayda Says:

    The idea of Jack becoming the new Jacob is very interesting indeed. Jack was always against Locke, as Jacob was of MIB. But at the same time, we don’t really know who represents who in the fate vs. free will arguement.

  5. (Formally Known As) BrandonKayda Says:

    There were also a lot of religious allegories in last night’s episode. Smocke is definitely trying to persuade people into doing his will, much like Satan tried to convince Adam and Eve in the bible.

    I think Hurley is serving as the main control by this point, he seems to be helping Jacob with his duties.

    I wonder how the whole Sawyer/Widmore/Smocke thing will end up. I think that Smocke will kill Widmore and Sawyer, then maybe Jack will kill Smocke.

  6. InaMinute Says:

    Sheesh – just watched – a day late and a dollar short, i know. Def the best episode of the season and my favorite since “we gotta go back, kate”. Two things:

    1) I want to know further meaning to what MiB is saying to Richard about how someone had taken over his body, etc. I need to rewatch but there is certainly something that they glazed over not by accident. I think it has something further to do with him not being able to leave.

    2) At the end in reference to all the religious stuff. If MiB is indeed the bad guy/devil, and i do believe the concept of Mib as Evil Incarnate, then why wold Richard be gong to put his cross back on as if he was “becoming” religious again. Something was awry there as well.

    The last point, is Jacob and MB are way too cordial to not have a deeper relationship i.e. Esau and Jacob. I believe it’s more of a two sides of the same stone.

    I’m sure I’ll have more when i have a chance to digest this.

    Miner, if you like Doc Jenson you should read Vozzek as well. always some interesting insight, some of which is over the top.

    I still don’t know 100% if Jack is the next guy to protect the island. There’s something to be said about Kate still not “choosing” a side. But the war is certainly coming.

  7. TheSloth Says:

    Wouldn’t Jacob be free will? There was the scene there Ben heard Jacob’s final thoughts… dissapointed in Ben’s choice or expecting more from Ben.

  8. YborCity Says:

    I think it’s all a game. Jacob mentioned that he keeps bringing people to the island to prove to MIB that people are inherently good and can figure out what is right and wrong on their own. MIB doesn’t care about that though, probably never has, but that is still the main reason Jacob is bringing people to the island. I think that the problems that everyone else faces on the island are all made up; but because Jacob refuses to intervene that got lost in translation. People come to the island, they struggle with right and wrong in the face of all of the evil on the island, they make up their fears and their problems, they die, and a new group of people shuffle in to play the game.

    This probably makes no sense, I haven’t worked the whole thing out in my head yet.

  9. YborCity Says:

    I looked back to the premiere of season 5… MIB says, “they come, they lie, they fight, etc.” when the black rock (supposedly) is rollin’ into the island. Jacob says, yeah, but until they don’t do that, until they behave, everything is all progress. I take this as MIB saying something like, “Look Jacob, I don’t care about this game anymore, I want to leave, you’re wrong I’m right, and now I’m just going to work towards getting off of the island.” And Jacob is stubborn and patient and is going to wait until someone behaves. Jacob thinks that despite all of the evil on the island — if the island really is the cork, that is — someone can stay good in the face of that…

    Does that make sense?

  10. The Light Between Says:

    Wow, how good was the guy who plays Richard last night? The acting on this show has been out of the park all season, but when the MIB first comes on him, and he’s all dehydrated, and speaking english with that thick accent, searching for the words….. Great stuff.
    And I have a feeling they might throw us all for a loop and make Sun the protector, for no other reason than Jack seems really predictable, and the show is not big on predictable.

  11. YborCity Says:

    ^ What about Jin? They haven’t specified which Kwon is the candidate yet. And think about it, Jin has been consistently a good guy all series… He was protective and a little confused during season one, but since then and especially recently, Jin has been great and would be a great spin as the eventual protector…

  12. Type III Jamming Personality Disorder Says:

    Nice comments, ybor

  13. Lycanthropist Says:

    hey LOSTies

    havent had time to comment today, but I am just gonna throw out my thoughts.

    I am sure most of this has already been touched on, but here it goes.

    This episode definitely did not disappoint. We have been waiting for the Book of Richard for a long time, and it surpassed my expectations. Nestor Carbonell’s acting was superb and he was able to convey so much emotion and grand epicness within the 45 minute Reader’s Digest version of his story. In true LOST fashion, they delivered the answers via a classic lost love story.

    So regarding all the religious overtones of this episode:
    I do not think that the island is Hell and that the man in black is supposed to be Satan himself. As others have already said. I think the smoke monster came and dug into Richard’s memories and saw what tools he would need to manipulate this poor forsaken soul. All the hell and devil talk was a direct bleed through of Richard’s inner feelings.

    And no guys, they are NOT all dead. Too much has gone on for this to be the case. Richard’s statement was a result of his utter confusion and despair. At that moment he had come to the conclusion that all that Jacob had told him was lies, including their very first conversation.

    I think they took one of the most popular early theories about the show and kinda trumped it up before debunking it completely.

    I am also starting to feel that both Jacob and the MiB are cut from the same cloth. There are so many crossovers for both of them:

    – they both have a secret location with the list of all the potential candidates.
    – Dogan asked Sayid to destroy the MiB in the EXACT same way the the MiB asked Richard to destroy Jacob.
    – There were some other similarities but I can’t remember right now.

    It does seem to be coming down to Jack taking over Jacob’s role in keeping the MiB/Locke imprisoned on the island. The irony of this is to great to overlook. Only two seasons ago Locke was trying to convince/keep Jack on the island and all Jack wanted to do was leave. Now it seems that we have yet another case of role reversal with Jack having to do everything he can to keep Locke on the island.

    I also think that the MiB caused the storm that happened as Jacob was trying to bring the Black Rock to the island.

    It also seems we got a better understanding of how the smoke monster works.

    Jacob brings people to the island to prove to the MiB that humanity CAN make the right choices, but grants the Smoke Monster the right and ability to judge. Jacob wont interfer and if the person is or chooses the path of darkness the smoke monster can then kill them.

    Ok my brain is starting to generate garble at this point so I am gonna stop here. 🙂

    Great amazing episode.

  14. Lycanthropist Says:

    welcome to the LOST side BK!

  15. Lycanthropist Says:

    and now that we now the island served as the cork that kept the evil in check, the question that is posed now is, “What does this mean for the ALT universe, where the island is deep below the ocean? Are the ALT characters ultimately heading for their demise, despite their grown and less broken souls?

  16. ohhphee Says:

    @Lycan

    I was looking for you to post earlier. Man… you really know how to lay it out there on the Lost front – as well as on the musical front. Two great obsessions, IMO.

    I dug the shit out of this episode! Lots of great insight.

    Still don’t know how the Black Rock managed to bust the statue and still manage to get so far from shore, unless Smokey gave it a boost, or Jacob, for that matter.

    Hope to catch up with all of you later. Love the theories here. And the mutual respect for conflicting theories.

  17. Type III Jamming Personality Disorder Says:

    two things about the Black Rock (these may or may not be valid or even interesting, just two things that stuck out for me):

    1) is it me or is it too obvious the parallel/irony that the Black Rock brought the first “white stone” person to the island? Perhaps this is an old topic that I have never thought about so apologies if this is redundant or basic. I remember when Rousseau first spoke of it thinking it was an actual black rock which, with knowing the symbolism that rocks (stones) hold, is a pretty obvious parallel now that we have more information on it. I don’t think we’ve seen the final role the boat will yet play. This also implies that Richard may indeed be a “black stone” person rather than a “white stone” one after all (that might be a stretch). At the least, we know it is in “dark territory” as Rousseau mentioned.

    2) this one may just need to be a suspension of disbelief thing: if the Black Rock hit the statue near the head (implied by the image right before they cut to the crash site), wouldn’t Jacob’s “lair” have been completely submerged under dozens (hundreds?) of feet of water? I’ve never seen a door on that entrance. like I said, probably nit picky and just something that needs to be accepted at face value but something that bothered me all the same.

    I’m probably delving too deeply into this, but unlike others I really think that all of the symbolism is very much intended by the writers. That parallel with the temptation story from Luke is too specific to simply be a quick connection. there’s a lot going on with that (16 years of catholic education here) which I do not have the time to flush out right this moment…

  18. bright light Says:

    Just watched last night and read thru the comments. Terrific episode and outstanding comments taboot. Just like phish, I find that the real action really heats up when the sun goes down. Not much to add, but figured I’d throw out a few thoughts floating thru my mind:

    – how/why did jacob choose those 6 to be the candidates?
    – why was ilana all bandaged up when jacob came to her? And if he truly was the closest thing she had to a father, was it b/c she spent considerable time on the island, b/c jacob spent considerable time off it, or b/c of something on more of a psychic plane (ie, jacob represents faith, which guided her thru life)?
    – how did jacob and the MiB get to the island in the first place?
    – if the alt-reality is what would happen if the MiB got off the island, it is interesting that the world looks very much as it does in real life (guess in OUR reality he mutated and put a bit of himself into the souls of the global leaders of gov’t, commerce, etc. If only we could find that cork…). And it’s interesting that the Losties are finding redemption and appear to be on the road to shedding their demons in a world w/evil incarnate on the loose, while they were (figuratively) lost while he was trapped.
    – damn, that was gorgeous view from where jacob and the MiB were talking at the end. I rarely mention the natural landscape, but that’s always been one of my favorite aspects of this show. It’s so beautiful to watch!

    Anyway, great episode. Should be a wild ride to the finish.

  19. Type III Jamming Personality Disorder Says:

    @bright light
    regarding the scenery, one of my best friends used to live on the north shore of oahu during the time when the series first began. his wife directed a summer camp which was down the road from the “crash site”. I went to their wedding, which was held in that area, and to get to where they lived you actually had to drive through the crash site. totally freaky now but kind of weird then since nobody knew what the show would eventually become. every time they show scenery I am immediately brought back to that visit. even cooler is that another friend who lived there had a son right when they were filming season one. his baby ended up being “Aaron” in the initial shots we got of the baby. they have a ton of pictures of evangeline lily and other cast members holding the baby and just generally hanging out between shootings.

  20. Mr. Palmer Says:

    What is Widmore’s role in all of this?

    Why is there a consensus that Jack will be the next “Jacob”? Not disputing this theory, just trying to wrap my head around it a bit better. Thanks!

  21. bright light Says:

    @TIII

    Wow, that’s some story about “Baby Aaron”! I’m hoping he’s had a more stable home life than the character 🙂

    @Mr. Palmer
    I might just be a contrarian, but I see Jack as too obvious a choice, though I’d be cool with it, mainly b/c of the irony Lycan mentioned earlier about Jack’s and Locke’s philosophical reversals.

  22. bright light Says:

    (Apologies if this already went up – computer issues today)

    @TIII

    Wow, that’s some story about “Baby Aaron”! I’m hoping he’s had a more stable home life than the character 🙂

    @Mr. Palmer
    I might just be a contrarian, but I see Jack as too obvious a choice, though I’d be cool with it, mainly b/c of the irony Lycan mentioned earlier about Jack’s and Locke’s philosophical reversals.

  23. InaMinute Says:

    one slight inconsitency i noticed, when Jacob and MiB are sitting on the island in season 5, it’s a beautiful day and the Black Rock is parked just off shore. In this week’s episode it seemed as though the first time Richard and the other prisoners on the Black Rock see the island is in the middle of the storm when they are just offshore. I assume this is just production “flaw”, but if not perhaps the black rock had been coming back and forth to the island for a long while?

  24. HoJo Says:

    @ inaminute
    It may not be the Black Rock in the Season 5 scene. Jacob said that he’s been brought many other people to the island before Ricardo so it may have been a different ship years before the Black Rock showed up.

    I think that Jack will end up being the “cork” just because his character has undergone the largest transformation of any character in the show… from pure scienctist to a true believer (i.e. the dynamite wont explode because I’m here for a reason). He also was the one who wanted to leave the island the most while Locke was the one who wanted to stay. It creates the most dynamic tension… so to speak.

  25. Lycanthropist Says:

    re: widmore

    I think widmore represents the embodiment of the evil nature of man that the MiB is so sure that Jacob can’t prove wrong.

    By this I mean he is a MAN to the core that has no interest in either side, white or black. He just wants the island and its power. The representation of man’s bloodlust and greed.

    Its funny because Desmond is Widmore’s opposite. In the sense that like it or not he is involved in the spirtual warfare of the island but could careless, and believes in the power of choice and virtue of love.

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