L O S T: “What They Died For” Discussion Thread

The Final Season

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91 Responses to “L O S T: “What They Died For” Discussion Thread”

  1. Lycanthropist Says:

    re: Widmore’s mission

    I think Jacob brought him there as a sacrifice.
    I don’t think for one minute we are expected to believe that Widmore has “changed his ways”. This man has way too much blood on his hands.

    – ordered the death of Alex as a baby
    – ordered the death of the entire Dharma Initiative
    – responsible for Alex’s death later in her life
    – was willing to kill all of the Oceanic 815 survivors
    – faked an entire plane crash using exhumed bodies
    – used countless scientists as fodder in his current battle against Locke
    – sending his son to an island where he knew he would be killed
    – stripping his daughter of her true love

    There is no way that this man can be good.
    Jacob brought him here probably knowing full well that if the MiB didn’t kill him Ben would.

    I thought they handled the Ben vs Widmore conflict fairly well. There conflict super-ceded the Jacob vs MiB conflict and right in front of their eyes too.

    Pretty great.

  2. Mr. Completely Says:

    that’s a good interpretation. I just would have liked to see the interaction between Jacob and Widmore. I think Widmore was intended to be a character much like MiB who acted in evil ways but thought he was trying to do something good or important, he just went so far down the “ends justify the means” path that there was no coming back.

  3. Lycanthropist Says:

    I think that may explain his earlier behavior…
    but at some point he started acting on his own and thats what Ben called him out on when he got him exiled.

    He has been away from the island for so long that hes become completely self-obsessed.

    Which does draw an interesting parallel to MiB.

    Mib wants and will do anything it takes to get off the island and be free of it.
    Widmore wants and will do anything it takes to get to the island and be in control of it.

  4. Lycanthropist Says:

    whoa!

    just had a thought.

    Lets remember that the last time Ben and Charles met their conversation directly referenced the rules that they couldn’t kill each other!

    Maybe Ben and Widmore were aware of this and that is why BEN shot him, knowing that he could only injure him rather than kill him.

    So now the MiB THINKS that Widmore is dead, but hes not?

  5. Mr. Completely Says:

    i forgot about that conversation.

    could be a continuity error as well.

  6. sanchothehutt Says:

    Does anyone have thoughts on Jack waking up bleeding in the alt reality? Did I miss something, or is this more of the realities bleeding (no pun intended, honestly) into each other?

  7. Mr. Completely Says:

    yeah, the realities “bleeding” into each other, how overt a metaphor huh? that’s definitely what’s up with that

    ====

    interesting that not just Desmond but now also Hurley is apparently aware of both timelines, at least in the alt world. That is, alt-Hurley is aware of Island reality (he recognized Ana Lucia). But, is Island Hurley also aware like that? We haven’t seen any indication that he is, but Desmond seems to be symmetrical that way….

    ====
    my wife’s response re: the Ben/Widmore no-kill-rule question above:

    “I do wonder if it’s another “rule change” from Jacob or something. When Widmore killed Alex, Ben said “He changed the rules.” It seemed like he was talking about Widmore at the time, but in hindsight, I think he meant Jacob..”

    I also wonder if the rules could be different on the island than they are off of it. Whatever the deal is, hopefully they will explain it somehow, b/c otherwise it’s just a mistake.

  8. Mr.Miner Says:

    so it boils down to the Light. Whether MiB can get to it and extinguish it before Jack et al can “stop him”….

    destroy island = extinguish light

  9. Type III Jamming Personality Disorder Says:

    have you all seen the trailer for the last episode? I got chills…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz1yHmUW05Y&feature=player_embedded

    don’t worry, no spoilers in there.

  10. Mr. Completely Says:

    of course Miner would relate it all to the most successful new Phish song of the last year 😮

    you’re right though. two weeks ago as clearing the mythology. this week was getting the conveging plots to the points they needto be. All the bits are in place to be able to just blast through the finale…

  11. Mr. Completely Says:

    odds that Miles survives/escapes?

    odds that Rose and Bernard have a key cameo next week?

    odds that Walt makes an appearance?

    odds that Vincent makes an appearance?

  12. Mr. Completely Says:

    I say

    2:3 against
    5:1 in favor
    2:1 in favor
    1:1

  13. Mr.Miner Says:

    lol at oddsmaking. the finale in this SUNDAY NIGHT! love it…

  14. Lycanthropist Says:

    pretty good odds for walt dont you think?

  15. Lycanthropist Says:

    by which i mean i dont think hes comin back

  16. Mr. Completely Says:

    here’s the question I’m really wondering about

    in alt-world the island sank. this probably means the light went out, right? does that imply that MiB is on the loose, in alt-world? one thing’s for sure, everyone’s not dead, which has been the implication as to what will happen if he escapes.

    However – note they’ve never said ‘dead.’ It’s always ‘gone.’

    Isn’t almost everyone better off in the alt-world? (Kate isn’t doing great, but say Sawyer helps prove her innocence) with, of course, the exception of not having the relationships they developed on the island…Ben is moving towards becoming Alex’s father-figure again…

    But if they’re becoming aware of the other timeline, they could have that awareness too. They could have the better lives, AND the Island experiences that helped make them whole.

    What if everything that could be lost by moving to the alt timeline (the kids such as Charlie Hume, Sun and Jin’s baby etc, and all of the relationships and personal growth too) could be recreated in the alt-world?

    So couldn’t sinking the island be a desirable thing?

    What if sinking the island, destroying the light, means making the alt-timeline the “real” one and the original island timeline becomes “virtual” ?

    So the fact that various things and people and memories would cease to exist from the point of view of people on the island would really be no loss at all. The formerly parallel timelines converge, and everyone gets the best of all possible futures.

    [variant: everyone gets to choose which ‘track’ they end up on]

  17. Mr. Completely Says:

    odds for Walt cameo if his appearance/age could be reconciled are high. If not, then no.

  18. Mr.Miner Says:

    So the fact that various things and people and memories would cease to exist from the point of view of people on the island would really be no loss at all. The formerly parallel timelines converge, and everyone gets the best of all possible futures.

    ^ interesting…erased from consciousness, not existence like we’ve all assumed.

    So potentially, MiB succeeds in extinguishing the Light, sinking the Island, frees himself thus kicking in the alt timeline into reality? My question is where does that time line come from? It would be the reality as we saw 815 make it to LAX, but the characters will have still gone through the island timeline in their consciousnesses?

    But then people wouldn’t have a choice….

  19. Mr.Miner Says:

    Walt’s gone.

  20. gatsbygatsbygreatdog Says:

    ok… first… very possibly the best LOST episode ever… every conversation, every scene, had layers upon layers of nods to fans and past seasons and events, amazing job by the writers. I’m glad that the board picked up on the fact that before now we were told that Ben and Wid. can’t kill eachother… I”m positive that this is not an error on the part of the writers and that it is explained by either the above explanation of a rule change, or that he knows that it will not kill Widmore if he shoots him because he can not kill him.
    I’m also going out on the limb and saying that there is another twist and Ben is the big hero of the show (I know people are saying he’s setting Flocke up, and I agree, but I think it goes bigger than that). I think Ben may be the one that ends up on the island after killing the monster, protecting it, or using it for ‘good’ in some way.
    I’m still thinking on the alt. timeline… I’ve grown to love it and i’m completely hooked as to how it will be integrated, I don’t even look at theories about that because I’m so into the classic ‘lost’ feeling. Amazing episode, so excited….

  21. gatsbygatsbygreatdog Says:

    ^ and if Walt is completely gone with no more explanation of why they wanted him so much, etc… then i’ll be rather pissed.

  22. Mr.Miner Says:

    Walt was gone after Locke let him go have his life as Jeremy Benthem.

    odds on Juliet being the mother of Jack’s kids? 1:1

  23. gatsbygatsbygreatdog Says:

    I can deal with Walt being ‘gone’… but I want the explanation… I just need walt to be mentioned at least once more with the reason behind him and everything with the kids. (I accept that the others were trying to get kids while young to teach them not to be corrupt, but walt they especially wanted)

  24. Hojo Says:

    Ben may have some special ability to trick or influence Flocke since he was actually saved by the island in the temple pool. Ricardo said he would never be the same if he was saved by the resurrection pool. Assumedly, the pool is connected in some fashion to “the light” that MIB went into. In any case, he’s always had some weird effects from that.

    It may be that whoever the guardian is at the end is the one person who stays in the original timeline while everyone else reverts to the alt. timeline. Their lives don’t seem to be “flawed” as Jacob puts it in that timeline, so maybe that’s the positive reality… Sun and Jin get to raise their kid, Charlie’s alive and in love w/ pregnant non-psycho Claire… Everybody gets to be happy!.. just the way that Trey wants it.

    I also loved the “It’s just a line of chalk in a cave” line. Very appropriate…

  25. gatsbygatsbygreatdog Says:

    ^forgot about Ben being saved in the temple pool… good call on that; think there could def. be a connection coming up there.

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