L O S T: “What They Died For” Discussion Thread

The Final Season

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91 Responses to “L O S T: “What They Died For” Discussion Thread”

  1. Mr. Completely Says:

    “It would be the reality as we saw 815 make it to LAX, but the characters will have still gone through the island timeline in their consciousnesses?”

    something like that, yeah, that’s what I’m thinking

    “But then people wouldn’t have a choice….”

    maybe the choice happens on the island – they have to make some kind of choice to make that happen

    this would make a little sense with what Widmore told Desmond: that he was going to have to make a sacrifice. I think he meant Desmond’s life with Penny and their son Charlie, which would not exist in the alt timeline. But Widmore didn’t realize the timelines would connect (“bleed together”) and converge, so there may end up being no sacrifice in that case.

  2. Mr. Completely Says:

    “I’m also going out on the limb and saying that there is another twist and Ben is the big hero of the show”

    I’ve been hoping something like this happens, yeah. I think he most likely ends up sacrificing himself in the mostest noblest way possible, but I’d love a twist like that

  3. kts Says:

    My theory, at the end of the show humanity is “saved” by the destruction of the Island. The Light extinguishes, meaning that the only Light left in the world is that which is carried inside us. But that’s all we ever needed. Looking for the “source” of the light outside of ourselves has caused nothing but trouble.

    All the remaining Island characters will need to sacrifice their lives in order to be (metaphorically) reborn in the sideways world.

    We will never find out exactly what the sideways world is, and how it relates to the “real” timeline. This will cause much consternation and debate among viewers. But, that may be the point.

  4. OlFactoryHugh Says:

    Ben seems to be aware that he was on the shit end of a long con by Flock, as evidenced by his explanation of the ‘summoning room’ in his condo. No way is he going to actually help him beyond whatever goals he has for himself.

  5. Mr. Completely Says:

    well put by @kts

  6. Snigglebeach Says:

    Couple late thoughts, had no cpu yesterday,

    @ Lycanthropist, I agree with a lot of your theories surrounding Widmore. I think he thinks he is on Jacob’s mission, but he was not told the “real truth” behind his actions. I think Ben knew, way back in that meeting with widmore off island, that Widmore still had a job to do concerning the Island, and Ben would not jeopardize those plans because they knew what Widmore would have to do.

    He actually waits until Widmore gives MIB enough info. He was waiting for the Widmore to sell the Long-con. whatever he told MIB was exactly what Jacob wanted him to tell MIB. The best way for him to take the bait was to have snivelling Widmore actually believe it was a secret to be kept. Then Ben shoots him for “divulging secrets”, but really it was just revenge, and Widmore never saw it coming.

    @ Mr Completely, You asked, if in the alt world, is MIB on the loose. Well i have this strange feeling that Jack’s son David could be MIB…

    In the alt world everyone we have seen excisted in the reg reality. There are some folks we have not seen, and things have obv. been shuffled around in a few glaring ways, but only 1 character does not exist in the original show. David. MIB’s name has been held back from us. Why??

    Everyone keeps saying Juliet or Penny or a few others will be David’s mom. I am rooting for the crazy on island mom who killed Claudia. I am probably totally wrong about everything on here, but i get weird vibes from that kid…

    And lastly, Everyone enjoy the finale, not sure there will be that much to theorize about after sunday. Just to either endorse or bash what we got. (which is not much my style) So thanks everyone for listening to my crazy theories every week…Thank god Summer Tour can take over as my chief obsession

  7. shpongleyez Says:

    @kts. like it. hope you’re right!

  8. Mr. Completely Says:

    @snig, great second paragraph on Widmore and Ben. That’s a great concept.

    I’ll be surprised if you’re right about David but that’s a cool idea too.

  9. Mr. Completely Says:

    to clarify a little of what I said yesterday, and I think this totally meshes with what @kts wrote –

    I think the alt-timeline characters are basically their “better selves” which is to say the characters as they each were (or are) at the end of their Island story arc. Each of them has had whatever flaw it was that used to define them burned away by their time on the Island, and they’ll get to live their lives with the benefit of that change, without the losses and trauma incurred on the island itself (which includes death for many of them).

  10. Mr. Completely Says:

    btw this is the most interesting and to-the-point Lost conversation I’ve seen anywhere in quite awhile, great points and thoughts from a lot of people here

  11. Type III Jamming Personality Disorder Says:

    it’s funny, but it really seems like a lot of the main plotlines in this show end up all being part of a con in one way or another. I mean, yeah, there’s the fate vs. free will stuff and all of that but the con seems to be a central theme here.

    even Jacob was conned into his role by Mother since she effectively left him no other choice.

  12. shpongleyez Says:

    @ Type III, nice point. and it lines up well with kts. To thine own self be true, look within, etc.

  13. sanchothehutt Says:

    @Type III makes a great point, I agree.

    Mr. Completely, was it you who brought up Vincent yesterday? (too lazy to look back right now). Well, it’s old, but I went and googled “Vincent Lost”, and found this link. It’s a pretty hilarious idea from way back. Made me giggle, at least.

    http://www.filmfodder.com/tv/lost/archives/004546.shtml

  14. sanchothehutt Says:

    Man alive I’m going to miss this.

    I’m going to be watching the series again, with my girlfriend who hasn’t seen the show. Anyone else think it would be fun to keep some sort of thread alive to discuss things we notice the second time through?

  15. gatsbygatsbygreatdog Says:

    TIII, I see other people agreeing with the ‘con’ idea, about that being a major theme. I see your point but disagree… I think its the converse side to what they’ve always said its about… redemption. They have been sayign for years that the main theme is redemption, and that is the case for EVERYONE that we know in this series… jacob was trying to redeem for the fact that he f’d up and created smokie, he brought people to the island who were ‘lost’ and in need of redemption in some way, and the ‘cons’ that are pulled along the way are only ‘cons’ when people want to see them that way (except when its someone like Ben or smokie pulling it), its really just not being given the information yet because they weren’t ready to hear it. Its jacob (and first jacob’s fake mom) setting up these circumstances to let individuals ‘find the light for themselves’ type of thing. Then everyone has a chance at redemption as their plot line continues… which is why i’m sticking with my theory that its Ben thats the big hero in the end and saves the island and protects it… he has the biggest redemption left to prove.

  16. Mr. Completely Says:

    yes I think the ‘long con’ is certainly a strong recurring plot device but redemption is the theme.

  17. sanchothehutt Says:

    The only reason I see Ben redeeming himself is that I can’t reconcile his actions in the alt universe with his actions on the island. It’s just that he’s always been so self-serving–the Lost equivalent of Alex Krycek, if you will. Just a few hours ago he was willing to go back to Flocke, and I’m not 100% sold on his sob story about “he’s the only one who’ll have me.” He’s always been such a manipulative little shit. I don’t know.

    Blah blah, my head’s just spinning and I’ll shut up now.

  18. sanchothehutt Says:

    ^albeit because they had him chained and digging his own grave 😉

  19. Mr. Completely Says:

    that was before it became really clear who MiB is and what he’s up to, right? that was when they were playing “who’s the bad guy really?”

    My theory is definitely that the alt-characters get to start, spiritually or whatever, where their Island selves leave off at the end of their individual story arcs, whether that’s when they die or the end of the show – but that they’re free from whatever karma they accumulated on or because of the Island.

    So if that’s right, we should definitely expect a Ben redemption. Based on the repeating-cycles motif I expect it to be a sacrifice.

    Very very possible it’ll end up being some completely unexpected outcome across the board of course

  20. shpongleyez Says:

    Curious to see if the alt endings stick to the themes and devices…

  21. Kevin Says:

    I think Desmond is Jacob’s replacement not Jack.

  22. Mr.Miner Says:

    I like the show will end like none of us have predicted….obviously 🙂

    Ben as savior was a theory Doc Jensen brought up…possibly being the guardian of the Light when all is said and done. If the light will exist at all….

  23. Mr. Completely Says:

    “Anyone else think it would be fun to keep some sort of thread alive to discuss things we notice the second time through?”

    ^^^ good idea but we’re going to give it a little rest before starting over…let it simmer a bit

    I bet we start again by the end of the year or so

  24. sanchothehutt Says:

    My God, signed up for netflix through xbox, watching the first episode, and I swear there’s stuff in here. First off, Locke creeps the hell out of everyone with his Godfather orage rind in the mouth bit, and it feels much more malicious than playful, then there is a creepy shot of Vincent watching over our Losties. Reading way too much into things? yes, but it’s fun

    Sorry, Mr. Completely, I agree it should simmer, I just couldn’t help myself tonight. Too much biofeedback/energy drink today.

  25. Type III Jamming Personality Disorder Says:

    @gatsby
    I have been thinking about your response to my comment a lot. first and foremost, I agree that redemption is probably the central theme for the show, with the “good vs. evil” stuff following that up. However, I do think that “the con” is more than just a plot device but rather a theme of its own that helps to tie the other themes together.

    Maybe we are dealing in semantics here, but for me the reason the con is so essential as a theme (more than just as a plot device – which it also is) is that when you look at just how many characters have used cons to gain some form of advantage you begin to see how pervasive it is and how much it means to the overall story. it is through these examples of people conning and being conned that we have learned so much about the relationships between these people

    give me a character and I will tell you a con they pulled. The only “main” character that I can’t think of not having conned someone outright is Desmond. Yes, there are others who haven’t as well (Bernard/Rose, for one) but the characters who are moving the plot have almost all been involved in some form of con during this series.

    I don’t really think I am disagreeing with you, but I think that saying that they are only cons “when people want to see them that way” misses the importance of what they have meant for the overall story.

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