L O S T: “The End” Discussion Thread

The Final Season

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406 Responses to “L O S T: “The End” Discussion Thread”

  1. BingosBrother Says:

    Hagbard Celine does a great job of explaining the nondualist viewpoint.
    Where the hell is Mr. Ecco?

  2. jay Says:

    ^FTWW <– hilarious ๐Ÿ™‚

  3. Type III Jamming Personality Disorder Says:

    anyone else have “Sitting Here in Limbo” running through their head over and over ever since Sunday?

  4. verno329 Says:

    @Bingo Ecko turned down the chance to be in the finale. He wanted something like 5 times what they offered and didn’t want to do it.

  5. BingosBrother Says:

    Thanks verno. Shoulda paid him. Not only is he a scary dude, but he was my favorite character.

  6. Mr. Completely Says:

    unfortunately the Eko actor is a total prima donna. His loss.

    The Simmons podcast is worth hearing the last 30 minutes of. The first hour is basically low level stuff with no additional insight…they’re pretty far behind what we have here…the last guy, Chuck Klosterman, is quite thoughtful

  7. Mr. Completely Says:

    ^^^ I don’t agree with Klosterman but he’s interesting

  8. verno329 Says:

    Liked the podcast about the same as you did C. The last parts were definitely better than the beginning. But glad I listened to it.

  9. Mr. Completely Says:

    that’s the way Simmons podcasts are. Always too long, but usually some solid content in there, as long as its a topic you’re into.

  10. verno329 Says:

    ^^^ I donโ€™t agree with Klosterman but heโ€™s interesting

    I know in my philosophical studies/inquiries I was always MUCH more interested in reading theories, arguments, etc. that I didn’t agree with than ones that I did agree with right away. If I agreed with it right away it was easy to just see that and move on. But if I didn’t agree with something I became nearly obsessed with it so that I could understand more clearly what I didn’t like. Writing papers on philosophers or movements that I didn’t like or agree with was always more satisfying to me than writing ones about subjects I did like.

  11. Andy B Says:

    I mean I’m obviously interpreting it in a different way, but the fact that show leads itself to this interpration is what troubles me.

    Nothing in Christians explanation of the alt universe goes beyond the fact that they are all there because they grew together, learned from eachother, and helped eachother grow.

    We have two ideas- the growth of our characters, and their journey to save the island.

    My point is, the open endeness of the journey itself can lead one to question whether it had any connection to the alt universe. I could say that it is a mental bond, or something created by the atom bomb (something many people say). Two things that have nothing to do with defeating Locke. You can assume that its not connected to the alt universe as easily as you could assume it IS connected.

    Christian says, this was the most important part of your life. But why? It seems as though the writers answer is because they all grew together, which made this all possible. Christian most definitely DOES NOT hint that it was important because of what they accomplshed in terms of the journey.

    You can then drawl the conlcusion that their GROWTH was more important than the JOURNEY. That forging friendships was more important than them saving the world.

    I don’t like thinking saving the world was less important than the bonds they formed. That seems ass backwards.

    Does this not make sense?

  12. Andy B Says:

    @ Lycanthropist

    im not really sure I follow the conclusions you are drawing.

    lets look at both possibilities.

    a) it was about saving the world:
    well then the journey was extremely important as it took the entire process to get them to a point where they could defeat the MiB

    b) it was about their relationships:
    the journey is what created and strengthed their relationships.
    —————-

    but this is my point. The final scene with christian suggests that their time on the island was important because of the bonds they made, not because they saved the world. Its not glorifying their journey by saying the time on the island “was the most important of your life” because they grew together, helped eachother discover eachother. It a way, Christian is saying B > A.

  13. ThePigSong Says:

    Finally watched the Finale last night. Phew!

    Thanks to all for helping to shed some light on questions I’d been pondering.

  14. Type III Jamming Personality Disorder Says:

    Andy, do you not see that the “growth” was part of the journey? if you want to get fully religious about it, while saving the world is a huge thing and very admirable, is that enough to get “into heaven”? or is it just as important for a person to be “good” (or come to “grace”) in the process?

    in other words, assuming the end result is the same do the means by which one gets there not matter as well?

    I understand what you are saying to mean that the saving is the most important thing which I think is selling the people involved short.

  15. lycanthropist Says:

    See I don’t think that Christian was saying that at all

  16. verno329 Says:

    I see your point Andy but what is the point of saving the world if you have no connections to it?

    Reminds me of a quote by Thoreau in Civil Disobedience (that I will paraphrase and probably mutilate). “I came into this world, not chiefly to make this a good place to live in, but to live in it, be it good or bad.”

    The way that I always viewed this is that one can fully commit oneself to a particular goal (abolition of slavery, nuclear disarmament, legalization of bane, or any other goal you wish to insert here) with a single-minded focus that allows for nothing else in your life and you may succeed and make the world a better place, but if you have no connections to the world you have “improved” does that really do you any good?

  17. lycanthropist Says:

    ^exactly

    that was the point of Jack’s WHOLE story arc, was to realize that fixing things is meaningless if you don’t open up to real relationships that have meaning.

    in a sense they were saving the world, and what makes the world worth saving is the personal relationships of love and friendship.

  18. Mr. Completely Says:

    I just don’t agree that Christian is implying that at all, and I wouldn’t have a problem with it if it turned out to be true anyway. Absolutely none.

    Basically @jay summarized my feelings totally with his breakdown.

    Bottom line is I get what you’re saying, but I think you are asking for the ending to be the ending you want, to the point that it has to completely rule out an idea you’re uncomfortable with. The fact is, you seem to be upset about the fact that they merely allowed this possibility – they certainly did not state it as truth.

    No offense or anything but I personally am done with this branch of the conversation. I hear you, I understand, but I neither agree with your interpretation nor would it have bothered me in the least if they had come right out and said that.

    So, as Lycan said: agree to disagree.

  19. Andy B Says:

    @Type III

    When I say “journey” I mean everything that happened that allowed them to save the world. This includes the growth of characters in itself.

    But then the question is, what mattered more? The growth of character? or saving the world?

    And I don’t think its selling the writers short, because they are the ones saying “its about the characters, not the island/plot.” And in the final scene, their relationships are what pave the way to salvation.

    I am just saying, in the rhetoric of the show, and knowing everything thats happened, it seems like the writers are selling LOST short. They are selling what they accomplished (defeating Locke) short, by saying their relationships are what really mattered.

    If their relationships are what really mattered, what can anyone say about the importance of defeating Locke? How could saving the world be an afterthought to their own version of “eternal salvation.” And if its not supposed to be, then the writers made a mistake by making such things legitimately questinonable. I mean I have questioned it, and I don’t think I’m taking many liberties. I am going off what was said in that final 5 minutes of the episode.

    In the end, I just think its a flaw. I don’t think anyone can say LOST was a perfect show. The writers were always good at the small picture, sometmies flimsy on the big picture. I just think this is an example of that.

  20. Mr. Completely Says:

    ohhhhhhh @lycan

    that is brilliant

    that might be the finest short summary of the meaning of the show as a whole I have yet seen

    very very profoundly said, sir

    my hat is off to you

  21. Mr. Completely Says:

    *shrug*

    I think the flaw in your reasoning is the assumption that one thing as opposed to the other is what “really” mattered.

    ok really done ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

  22. lycanthropist Says:

    :: throws up arms in frustration ::

    ๐Ÿ™‚

    I just don’t see where they are definitively saying that the relationships trump what happened on the island.

    it seems more like the relationships are as strong as they are BECAUSE of what happened on the island.

    but I am with Mr. C

    lets move on to other avenues of discussion

  23. Type III Jamming Personality Disorder Says:

    you misunderstood me, andy. by “people involved” I meant the characters. and the last thing I’ll say on this (because I think we are looking at this from two perspectives that do not seem to be able to come together here) is that I think it is selling the show short if the end result (defeating Flocke) were the only important aspect of the story arc. for me, everything about this show — and, to be honest, my life — is about the journey and not the end result. I have success in my life because of the connections I have made, not because of the things I have achieved (or obtained). I see this as what the writers were getting at. apparently, lycan does too.

  24. verno329 Says:

    @Andy I don’t see why one has to be more important than the other. Journey/growth seem to be on equal footing to me.

  25. Mr.Miner Says:

    “Christian most definitely DOES NOT hint that it was important because of what they accomplshed in terms of the journey”

    ^ The journey has nothing to do with accomplishments.

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