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69 Responses to “L O S T: “The Package” Discussion Thread”
Jughead did both I believe. It set them back to the original timeline of 2007 but at the same time started an alternate reality which began in 1977 when Jughead detonated. The characters of the ALT universe are now in 2004 with no interference from Jacob/MIB to change their decisions in anyway, so I think the ALT universe is supposed to show their true characters
That when Juliet hit Jughead that eighth time, Time itself split into two lines.
There is no way to entirely wipe out the original timeline, because the ALT time line can’t exist without the original. So in order to prevent a paradox, Time HAD to split..
So you have the original timeline where Jughead never detonated and everything stayed the same. Jack and co were just blasted back to the present.
The ALT time line started that day, with Jughead detonating. Therefore the ALT time line has had a different history since 1977, not just the day of the crash.
need to think about it but yes I think you may be right
details of the Jughead incident are just phlebotenum (a word made up by Joss W. to describe any kind of power, device or effect that needs to exist because of plot purposes…related to the idea of a MacGuffin…the heroes often need the phlebotenum to reach the MacGuffin….but I digress)
point is, I’m sure they’ll explain the supposed mechanics of the incident
but I like this train of thought
agree that Jacob wanting to not-interfere is a key point, one that needs to be addressed b/c it seems hypocritical given how much he interferes just bringing people to the island…maybe he realized that and decided to bring the whole game to an end…
Schrödinger’s cat is a thought experiment, often described as a paradox, devised by Austrian physicist Erwin Schrödinger in 1935. It illustrates what he saw as the problem of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics applied to everyday objects. The thought experiment presents a cat that might be alive or dead, depending on an earlier random event
the quantum-mechanical “Schrödinger’s cat” paradox according to the many-worlds interpretation. In this interpretation every event is a branch point; the cat is both alive and dead, irrespective of whether the box is opened, but the “alive” and “dead” cats are in different branches of the universe, both of which are equally real, but which cannot interact with each other.
so jughead is the branch point in which the characters are in both realities….but this says they cant intesect. I have a feeling that on the show they will
I would expect that at some point the two timelines need to intersect, otherwise we are left with two divergent realities. may be what happens in quantum theory, but doesn’t make for very compelling television.
I need to think about this theory some more, lycan… good thoughts there.
the idea in the Schrodinger experiment is that the two possible outcomes exist separate from each other; but at some point, when an outside agent “observes” (which really means “interacts with”) the whole system, the “wavefunction collapses” – which means that the two separate “virtual” possible outcomes “collapse” into a single, real event, which is either one or the other.
If this is really modeled on the Schrodinger indeterminacy concept, both timelines can continue to evolve until acted upon from the outside, at which point one or the other is “chosen” and becomes real, and the other one vanishes – in fact it never really existed. Both outcomes only “virtually” existed up until the point of wavefunction collapse i.e. selection of one over the other.
I think Desmond might be the “outside agent” that causes this “collapse” and the selection of one possible timeline over the other – if that’s actually what’s going on.
Also: re-watched “Ab Aeterno” last night – OMG what a fucking episode that is!
I find the idea that Jacob thinks he “isn’t interfering” laughable since he is bringing people to the island; I find him and the MiB to be more and more different sides of the same coin, and hope that in the end, a “none of the above” choice is made…
I find it very interesting that in an ep that heavily features Jacob in white, and the MiB in, well, black, at the end the key influential role is played by Hurley…wearing his bright red shirt. I think Hurley might end up being the none of the above. He might, right at the end, kind of call BS or shenanigans on a situation that everyone else is taking very seriously….
Do you think Isabella really told Hurley to tell Richard to stop the MiB? I don’t. I think that’s Hurley’s first step into being one of the players.
jughead didnt cause the ALT timeline….it just jumped them back to the original timeline….right?
Desmond could be the key in connecting the two realities
Miner
not sure if i can explain just yet.. this idea just popped into my head.
But I am def not saying that the ALT isnt real.
I am saying that the ALT is created as an offshoot of the original timeline.
Sort of a like a child universe.
It has the dna of the original timeline but it isnt the same, but just as real.
However.. I think that Jacob finally realized the only way to prove his point was to be entirely hands off
but the only way he could do that is to guide the characters to make a choice that ultimately leads to a universe of THEIR creation.
A universe devoid of the islands spiritual and fated influence.
That makes the ALT universe very special.
I think somehow the revelations that the ALT characters have will have an effect on the end game of the original timeline.
for instance, Ben made the choice to protect Alex and save her in the ALT, and immediately following that he is forgiven just like that by Ilana.
thats the best example I can think of right now…
Jughead did both I believe. It set them back to the original timeline of 2007 but at the same time started an alternate reality which began in 1977 when Jughead detonated. The characters of the ALT universe are now in 2004 with no interference from Jacob/MIB to change their decisions in anyway, so I think the ALT universe is supposed to show their true characters
…I think
Well the way I saw it Miner was this
That when Juliet hit Jughead that eighth time, Time itself split into two lines.
There is no way to entirely wipe out the original timeline, because the ALT time line can’t exist without the original. So in order to prevent a paradox, Time HAD to split..
So you have the original timeline where Jughead never detonated and everything stayed the same. Jack and co were just blasted back to the present.
The ALT time line started that day, with Jughead detonating. Therefore the ALT time line has had a different history since 1977, not just the day of the crash.
for a better more scientific explanation…
google or wiki
the Schrödinger’s Cat theory
but no miner
Jughead itself didnt cause the ALT timeline
the potential paradox did
if that makes sense
of course this is all just my opinion and conjecture..
did I lose you guys?
I follow you @lycan
need to think about it but yes I think you may be right
details of the Jughead incident are just phlebotenum (a word made up by Joss W. to describe any kind of power, device or effect that needs to exist because of plot purposes…related to the idea of a MacGuffin…the heroes often need the phlebotenum to reach the MacGuffin….but I digress)
point is, I’m sure they’ll explain the supposed mechanics of the incident
but I like this train of thought
agree that Jacob wanting to not-interfere is a key point, one that needs to be addressed b/c it seems hypocritical given how much he interferes just bringing people to the island…maybe he realized that and decided to bring the whole game to an end…
yeah i am really into this theory right now..
def sticking with the Jacob having to completely wash his hands of interference.
Schrödinger’s cat is a thought experiment, often described as a paradox, devised by Austrian physicist Erwin Schrödinger in 1935. It illustrates what he saw as the problem of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics applied to everyday objects. The thought experiment presents a cat that might be alive or dead, depending on an earlier random event
the quantum-mechanical “Schrödinger’s cat” paradox according to the many-worlds interpretation. In this interpretation every event is a branch point; the cat is both alive and dead, irrespective of whether the box is opened, but the “alive” and “dead” cats are in different branches of the universe, both of which are equally real, but which cannot interact with each other.
so jughead is the branch point in which the characters are in both realities….but this says they cant intesect. I have a feeling that on the show they will
I would expect that at some point the two timelines need to intersect, otherwise we are left with two divergent realities. may be what happens in quantum theory, but doesn’t make for very compelling television.
I need to think about this theory some more, lycan… good thoughts there.
@miner
LOST has always been a show that drives a certain thought process to the ground for a whole season and then changes it at the end…
example –
Season 5 was all Whatever Happened Happened and then bam, they changed things, well at least in one reality
There is no doubt that the two universes will interact at some point..
But until that happens I am goin with the writers and accepting that the branch point is at the point Jughead did or did not detonate
so yeah the ALT is a universe devoid of destiny because it was created by the free will choice of a man.
the idea in the Schrodinger experiment is that the two possible outcomes exist separate from each other; but at some point, when an outside agent “observes” (which really means “interacts with”) the whole system, the “wavefunction collapses” – which means that the two separate “virtual” possible outcomes “collapse” into a single, real event, which is either one or the other.
If this is really modeled on the Schrodinger indeterminacy concept, both timelines can continue to evolve until acted upon from the outside, at which point one or the other is “chosen” and becomes real, and the other one vanishes – in fact it never really existed. Both outcomes only “virtually” existed up until the point of wavefunction collapse i.e. selection of one over the other.
I think Desmond might be the “outside agent” that causes this “collapse” and the selection of one possible timeline over the other – if that’s actually what’s going on.
Also: re-watched “Ab Aeterno” last night – OMG what a fucking episode that is!
I find the idea that Jacob thinks he “isn’t interfering” laughable since he is bringing people to the island; I find him and the MiB to be more and more different sides of the same coin, and hope that in the end, a “none of the above” choice is made…
I find it very interesting that in an ep that heavily features Jacob in white, and the MiB in, well, black, at the end the key influential role is played by Hurley…wearing his bright red shirt. I think Hurley might end up being the none of the above. He might, right at the end, kind of call BS or shenanigans on a situation that everyone else is taking very seriously….
Do you think Isabella really told Hurley to tell Richard to stop the MiB? I don’t. I think that’s Hurley’s first step into being one of the players.
well that episode potentially puts my whole theory to shambles
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YOU ARE EVERYBODY !!!